Dialog Topic
SELECTED-Marry or marry not, you will regret it! ( kierkegaard)
Isn't marriage a completely senseless, romantic and antique habit?
The worldwide increasing divorce rates would suggest to stop that institution and find out other ways to organize partnership!
What in your opinion would be a solution,
- hold on to the old system and try to survive without divorce or
- looking for new, innovative, progressive forms of partnership relations?
How could these be created and what form they should have?
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Conclusion Points (each point is expandable to show thread)
Facts
Bert Hellinger's books are giving helpful ideas concerning couple life.
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Use of violence is a reason to get a divorce.
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Submitted by Elysenicole88 on Mon, 08/25/2008 - 5:37pm.I think marriage is still a wonderful institution that promotes a deep commitment to the ones we love. The problem is that too many people expect so much of their marriages but are unwilling to put in the work. No one wants to keep "the candle aflame." Marriage is for people who truly love each other unconditionally and those who are mature enough to handle its responsibilities.
Many people are taking marriage lightly and ending up in divorce, but that doesn't mean the institution should be obsolete. It just means most people are allowing their marriages to fail. It's always easier to get a divorce then to just work the problem out.
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Submitted by freestyle on Tue, 08/26/2008 - 6:45am.In the first place I don't think people end up in divorce because they took marriage lightly!
Nobody in real life would marry without unconditional love, without believing it is for a whole life, without wishing to bring luck to each other and a future family! Therefore people are marrying!
But in every second case it doesn't work. So the question is why it doesn't work!
The answer you propose us is, "people are allowing their marriage to fail".
This would mean that people are able to create their own lives just as they want, it only depends of the will and effort they use, right? If I would be religious I would say only God has this power but fortunately no human being!
"It's easier to get a divorce..."have you ever followed a divorce? It is not at all like in a film!
People who went through a divorce very often end up in loneliness, financial problems, mental and emotional they are depending from their psychologist, not to talk about the children! In most cases a divorce needs a lot of energy, money and courage!
Just to stay in a hopeless situation is much easier than to bear all the follows of the decision to get divorced.
Don't get me wrong, sure I agree with you that problems should be worked out, but even with help from outside this is not always possible.
Examples:
-Lack of respect
-Use of violence
-Regular fights in front of the children
-Lack of sexual attraction
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Submitted by Elysenicole88 on Thu, 08/28/2008 - 6:56pm.Don't be naive. Many people get married without knowing what they are getting themselves into. And many of them get married when they don't love the person unconditionally. And yes., I DO know the painful process of a divorce.
The examples you listed are not reasons to get a divorce except the violence reason.
Most marriages encounter all those issues. It's inevitable. But perfect love wins out every time. If you Really love someone unconditionally, you look beyond sexual attraction, and disagreements. That's why it's called "unconditional."
Remember the basic marriage vows, "through thick and thin."
Elyse A
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Submitted by freestyle on Thu, 08/28/2008 - 10:45pm.if going through thick and thin means for example that women should support their husbands behavior which is showing not the slightest respect to them, very often seen in front of others, more or less subtle (this is a kind of hormone-stimulating action) and to thank him afterward she is wanted to have sex with him, this is even more a reason for me to support divorce!
Just to make my examples a little more concrete.
"Many people get married without knowing what they are getting themselves into",
is not correct, because really NOBODY knows that! This has nothing to do with being naive! You don't even know when you take your new, perfect car to do some shoppings and even being the perfect driver, you never will know if not just this time you will have an accident!
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Submitted by Elysenicole88 on Fri, 08/29/2008 - 6:24pm.Right! But that doesn't mean I'm going to stop driving.
Elyse A
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Submitted by freestyle on Sat, 08/30/2008 - 2:13pm.it is your personal decision to continue driving, this makes you in no way a bad or good person. Your neighbor decided that for him it is better to take the train because he is an anxious person. You made sure that you have the insurance you want to have ( and the money to pay fuel!) while your neighbor never would feel good in a car even with the best insurances.
Shouldn't we just take out the moralizing aspect, so everybody may feel free to do the choice fitting to his personal possibilities, character and situation?
I propose to update Kierkegaard's quotation:
Marry or marry not, you shouldn't regret it!
May we come together like that?
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Submitted by mjontheweb on Tue, 08/26/2008 - 11:04pm.MJo
It 's true that divorce is not easy, especially for women who are financially dependent on their husbands....it is very difficult to commit to life, but even more difficult to break free. Who can really say "I love you for life" A life is dealy problems and defects of the other emerging..
"learn to better know each other for less love" " apprendre à mieux connaitre pour moins aimer"
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Submitted by freestyle on Thu, 08/28/2008 - 11:19pm.Chere MJo,
sorry I'm showing your private message here in public, but this is what I mean, just like Kierkegaard!
And you suggested:" learn to know each other better for more love"
I would suggest: keep your little secrets for more love and give space to your beloved little secrets for more love.
Sometimes to know EVERYTHING from each other is just boring and listen for hundred times the same story with the same surprise would merit a gold medal.
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Submitted by mjontheweb on Fri, 08/29/2008 - 1:39am.MJo
I agree with you, but I did not think ( their secrets or their story). I just wanted to say that there are people that you learn to love more when you discover their personality....and others for whom we have " le coup de foudre" or (we fall crazy in love) and which reveals their bad character their bad tendencies uninteresting after a few years.
Never rush before falling in mariage
La citation pourrait être " Learn to know each other and see..." (lol)
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Submitted by freestyle on Wed, 08/27/2008 - 5:53am."Denen, die viel geliebt haben, wird alles vergeben!"
Olivier Messiaens Oper "Saint Francois d'Assise"
"Those who loved a lot, everything will be forgiven"
(after Francis of Assisi, I just finished the Nikos Kazantzakis biography about him!)
I found some interesting books from Bert Hellinger ( he studied Philosophy, Theology )
about couple life, did you hear about him?
I agree with your quotation, i guess it will say that in everyday life
we need to respect each other, soooo true!
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Germany:
1900 : 476 491 marriages - 1,9% divorced
2005 : 388 451 " - 51% "
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Submitted by freestyle on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 5:40am.Germany:
1900 : 476 491 marriages - 1,9% divorced
1991 : 454 291 " - 30% "
2005 : 388 451 " - 51% "
In France 50% of all marriages made in 2001 are divorced.
50% of all divorces in Europe and Northern America are caused by violence against the partner. 3/4 of the applicants are women.
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Submitted by adam12 on Mon, 08/25/2008 - 12:16pm.I do think it is very hard in this day and age to value a partnership and partner. It is easier of course to give up and move on, but if you've decided that you're going to marry "until death do you part" than the question is, are you a person of your word?
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Submitted by freestyle on Tue, 08/26/2008 - 7:00am.If you ask me personally this question, I would say I'm not a person of my word just to be a person of my word!
If it turns out to be senseless, I change my opinion for a changed situation.
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Submitted by frenchwriter on Sun, 09/07/2008 - 10:47am.Michel
After 32 years or so in a marriage with a great lady and three children., I decided to take a different direction. Cosmopolitan by nature and gypsy, staying in one lousy place with cold, snow, icy roads and mosquitoes chasing you all summer, I decided to move south. There I found happier and well rounded people, hospitable and genuinely interested in you not by what you have but by who you are. I came back and found now the Midwest with new eyes. Marriage is an old institution and is in need of repairs. Before you had to be virgin...not anymore. Times do change and people's perception in a modern context as well. In my case, my new friend is in Africa and brings that loving touch know around the world. You might be German and comparing stats to stats..it is the same everywhere. Nowadays people try it out and if it does not work, hasta la vista! Bienvenido a la nueva amiga or welcome to the next one who might very well be black. In fact what they say is if you go black, you will be back! For more! The Biblical model of marriage has however served well over the centuries. It is since J.J Rousseau that liberalism has taken place. He could not hold his own and much less preach what the new marriage vows should be. Today, just come and take it easy. Violence is not the answer but a loving relationship based on honesty, trust and love.
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Submitted by freestyle on Tue, 09/09/2008 - 12:12am.The interpersonal relationships are causing problems all over the planet, be it in a marriage or otherwise. If you compare the initial reasons causing the trouble, you may realize that they are totally different.
A divorce in Great Britain and a divorce in Turkey ( it is not possible to get a divorce there, but they are able to through the uncomfortable person just out of the family), is based on completely different cultural context so is marriage, it is definitely not the same.
A divorce in Australia or in India is for sure not even comparable!
In Germany parents are content if their children don't get married with the first person they have sexual contact. In contrary they would be worrying about the lack of experience their children would have without " trying" several partners, to find out who is the most suitable one. And they are talking about this with their children! Mostly the younger people live together during the time they study and are just exercising relationship.
How do you handle this with your children Michel?
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50% of all divorces in Europe and North America are caused by violence against the partner.
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Submitted by freestyle on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 5:40am.Germany:
1900 : 476 491 marriages - 1,9% divorced
1991 : 454 291 " - 30% "
2005 : 388 451 " - 51% "
In France 50% of all marriages made in 2001 are divorced.
50% of all divorces in Europe and Northern America are caused by violence against the partner. 3/4 of the applicants are women.
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Submitted by adam12 on Mon, 08/25/2008 - 12:16pm.I do think it is very hard in this day and age to value a partnership and partner. It is easier of course to give up and move on, but if you've decided that you're going to marry "until death do you part" than the question is, are you a person of your word?
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Submitted by freestyle on Tue, 08/26/2008 - 7:00am.If you ask me personally this question, I would say I'm not a person of my word just to be a person of my word!
If it turns out to be senseless, I change my opinion for a changed situation.
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Submitted by frenchwriter on Sun, 09/07/2008 - 10:47am.Michel
After 32 years or so in a marriage with a great lady and three children., I decided to take a different direction. Cosmopolitan by nature and gypsy, staying in one lousy place with cold, snow, icy roads and mosquitoes chasing you all summer, I decided to move south. There I found happier and well rounded people, hospitable and genuinely interested in you not by what you have but by who you are. I came back and found now the Midwest with new eyes. Marriage is an old institution and is in need of repairs. Before you had to be virgin...not anymore. Times do change and people's perception in a modern context as well. In my case, my new friend is in Africa and brings that loving touch know around the world. You might be German and comparing stats to stats..it is the same everywhere. Nowadays people try it out and if it does not work, hasta la vista! Bienvenido a la nueva amiga or welcome to the next one who might very well be black. In fact what they say is if you go black, you will be back! For more! The Biblical model of marriage has however served well over the centuries. It is since J.J Rousseau that liberalism has taken place. He could not hold his own and much less preach what the new marriage vows should be. Today, just come and take it easy. Violence is not the answer but a loving relationship based on honesty, trust and love.
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Submitted by freestyle on Tue, 09/09/2008 - 12:12am.The interpersonal relationships are causing problems all over the planet, be it in a marriage or otherwise. If you compare the initial reasons causing the trouble, you may realize that they are totally different.
A divorce in Great Britain and a divorce in Turkey ( it is not possible to get a divorce there, but they are able to through the uncomfortable person just out of the family), is based on completely different cultural context so is marriage, it is definitely not the same.
A divorce in Australia or in India is for sure not even comparable!
In Germany parents are content if their children don't get married with the first person they have sexual contact. In contrary they would be worrying about the lack of experience their children would have without " trying" several partners, to find out who is the most suitable one. And they are talking about this with their children! Mostly the younger people live together during the time they study and are just exercising relationship.
How do you handle this with your children Michel?
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-50% of the divorced couples have children under 18 years (in Germany).
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Submitted by freestyle on Tue, 08/26/2008 - 5:35am."About 50% of first marriages for men under age 45 may end in
divorce, and between 44 and 52% of women's first marriages
may end in divorce for these age groups. The likelihood of a divorce
is lowest for men and women age 60, for whom 36 % of men
and 32 percent of women may divorce from their first marriage by
the end of their lives. A similar statistical exercise was performed in
1975 using marital history data from the Current Population Survey
(CPS). Projections based on those data implied that about one-third of
married persons who were 25 to 35 years old in 1975 would end their
first marriage in divorce.
"This cohort of people, who in 1996 were about 45 to 55 years old, had
already exceeded these projections as about 40% of men and
women in these ages had divorced from their first marriage. Current
projections now indicate that the proportion could be as high as
50% for persons now in their early forties."
Rose M. Kreider and Jason M. Fields, "Number, Timing, and Duration of
Marriages and Divorces: 1996", U.S. Census Bureau Current Population Reports, February 2002, p. 18
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Submitted by max on Tue, 08/26/2008 - 10:23am.of marriages with children versus marriages without? Certainly once you add children to the mix it becomes much more difficult with differences in raising them and divided attention to the children instead of to each other. Then again, once there are children, you become much more of a "family unit" and there are added ties and reasons for staying together. Any statistics???
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Submitted by freestyle on Wed, 08/27/2008 - 5:15am.http://www.scheidung-online.de/sstatistik.htm
50% of the divorced couples have children under 18 years. ( In Germany)
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After years of marriage common plans might change into different directions.
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Submitted by Cupgrease on Thu, 08/28/2008 - 8:42am.Marriage should be a legally binding contract that manages assets and that anticipates the moving on of two individuals to other, binding although exclusive relationships. And that would allow for the equitable accruing of said assets from one individual to another.
Romantic love aside, marriages end, and it is the not planning for such that makes it bitter. If an individual could 'accrue' their lifelong assets, split newly accrued assets with their current mates, and then divide them equitably upon the dissolution of the marriage, this would be a much manageable and worthwhile union.
We should plan for serial monogamy, not hope against it.
Cg
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Submitted by freestyle on Fri, 08/29/2008 - 1:34am.Hi Cupgrease ( a wonderful name, would suggest some dish detergent! ),
yes, you are right, we should start to think about that, I will let you know when I did so!
And you think monogamy would be the solution we are looking for and would stop divorces?
Interesting and so easy!
No, but seriously, most divorces take place after several years of marriage, the couple forgot their plans from years ago!
B.Hellinger suggested in one of his books to imagine, will say call back the first impression of the partner which made you fall in love with her/ him.
Carrying this image dearly with you and calling it when you ask yourself why ever did you marry that person, might be helpful.
There is no easy, fast solution, the divorce phenomenon is too complex as it is marriage, but there are several ideas, kind of exercises which could be very helpful to avoid divorce!
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Monogamy is not a solution to avoid divorce.
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Submitted by Cupgrease on Thu, 08/28/2008 - 8:42am.Marriage should be a legally binding contract that manages assets and that anticipates the moving on of two individuals to other, binding although exclusive relationships. And that would allow for the equitable accruing of said assets from one individual to another.
Romantic love aside, marriages end, and it is the not planning for such that makes it bitter. If an individual could 'accrue' their lifelong assets, split newly accrued assets with their current mates, and then divide them equitably upon the dissolution of the marriage, this would be a much manageable and worthwhile union.
We should plan for serial monogamy, not hope against it.
Cg
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Submitted by freestyle on Fri, 08/29/2008 - 1:34am.Hi Cupgrease ( a wonderful name, would suggest some dish detergent! ),
yes, you are right, we should start to think about that, I will let you know when I did so!
And you think monogamy would be the solution we are looking for and would stop divorces?
Interesting and so easy!
No, but seriously, most divorces take place after several years of marriage, the couple forgot their plans from years ago!
B.Hellinger suggested in one of his books to imagine, will say call back the first impression of the partner which made you fall in love with her/ him.
Carrying this image dearly with you and calling it when you ask yourself why ever did you marry that person, might be helpful.
There is no easy, fast solution, the divorce phenomenon is too complex as it is marriage, but there are several ideas, kind of exercises which could be very helpful to avoid divorce!
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Shared logic
Successful marriage is still possible.
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Submitted by Cupgrease on Thu, 08/28/2008 - 8:42am.Marriage should be a legally binding contract that manages assets and that anticipates the moving on of two individuals to other, binding although exclusive relationships. And that would allow for the equitable accruing of said assets from one individual to another.
Romantic love aside, marriages end, and it is the not planning for such that makes it bitter. If an individual could 'accrue' their lifelong assets, split newly accrued assets with their current mates, and then divide them equitably upon the dissolution of the marriage, this would be a much manageable and worthwhile union.
We should plan for serial monogamy, not hope against it.
Cg
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Submitted by freestyle on Fri, 08/29/2008 - 1:34am.Hi Cupgrease ( a wonderful name, would suggest some dish detergent! ),
yes, you are right, we should start to think about that, I will let you know when I did so!
And you think monogamy would be the solution we are looking for and would stop divorces?
Interesting and so easy!
No, but seriously, most divorces take place after several years of marriage, the couple forgot their plans from years ago!
B.Hellinger suggested in one of his books to imagine, will say call back the first impression of the partner which made you fall in love with her/ him.
Carrying this image dearly with you and calling it when you ask yourself why ever did you marry that person, might be helpful.
There is no easy, fast solution, the divorce phenomenon is too complex as it is marriage, but there are several ideas, kind of exercises which could be very helpful to avoid divorce!
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Nowadays there are possibilities to create partnership in a different way.
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Submitted by victoriaelise on Thu, 08/28/2008 - 7:24am.Well, of course the romantic part of me wants to say that marriage is the way to go. I don't think any girl wants to imagine a future without a big white dress and handsome groom waiting for her at the end of the aisle (hey, maybe that's part of the problem!).
As I ponder this question, I can't help but think of the episode of Scrubs (not real, I know, but hey) where Dr. Kox and Jordan get back together after being divorced only to discover that they were never really divorced and decide to take on once again the label of being married. From that moment, however, their relationship takes a downturn, and they eventually decide to get divorced for real, although they stay in a romantic relationship together, living together and raising their child.
I think in this society of great individualization and deteriating gender roles, the idea of becoming "one" in marriage appeals less and less to everyone, as they have built up their own lives. We all have our own careers and confidence in ourselves, and I think a lot of time people marry out of insecurity or loneliness. We have reached a point, however, of instant gratification, where we can either validate ourselves or find someone who can do it for us. We don't think of gratification in the long run, just the short.
I feel like this topic is very close to me, because for some reason, my "boyfriend" and I just cannot seem to hold these titles... we are always breaking up with one another, but the second we break up we miss each other and run into each other some where and are very happy once we are "together" again even though we are not "official". We love each other very much and couldn't even think of anyone else in a romantic way; we are extremely dedicated to one another, almost like a natural marraige. Not to make this all about me, I just thought it was a relevant example, because, while I think (or want to think) marriage is important, the loyalty that the label of marriage is supposed to represent is far more important than the actual label itself, a label which does not necessarily come with the loyalty it implies.
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Submitted by littleredridinghood on Fri, 08/29/2008 - 9:52am.programmed from a young age to want to be married. As you said, the "big white dress and handsome groom" which leads to a baby boy and baby girl, daddy working 9-5 and mommy at home with an apron on baking cookies. Obviously there are few households that follow this pattern in our day and age. But for some reason, we still cling to that old way of thinking.
I think it is about 50/50 to expect that the person you marry will still be the person you want 20 years down the road. People change and grow and it is a lot to expect that what you wanted when you were 25 is what you will want when you're 45. Marriages used to last longer no because people were happy, but because they were afraid to divorce. Now that it is accepted, people do it more. I think the question is valid..not why do people get divorced, but why do people get married? If there was more emphasis on that and more forgiveness, I think marriages would have a better chance.
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Submitted by freestyle on Fri, 09/05/2008 - 5:22am.I agree with you Lrrhood things are changing within 20 years and this is not because someone failed , it is just as life is.
If everybody would be more tolerant and less fast with any accusations,
more open minded (-hearted ) and less egoist,
more able to forgive and less fast with moralizing,
than maybe there could be a future for friendships, relations or marriages .
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Submitted by darkwriter on Wed, 09/03/2008 - 4:07pm.I agree with you, it is pretty much programmed into us as young kids that you should be looking to be married. In fact we even go to the point of teaching to wait until you are married to have sex. It's hard to really know if the person you meet is the perfect mate, there is so much temptation in the world for one or both spouses to cheat, or just walk away when they don't feel like trying anymore.
It's sad that our society looks at marriage in such a way, but it's true. Marriage isn't what it use to be, no one wants to work things out, they just want to walk away when they are tired. If people would take the time to talk and hear, actually hear, each other I think maybe a small percentage of these divorces could actually be worked through. But the idea of it being a legal binding contract, which by the way it is a binding contract already, what's the purpose? Is it really going to make a marriage last if one person decides they have had enough? No, so maybe we should promote the idea of seeking those marriage counselor's prior to being married and as a course of trying to fix a marriage that is just going off track. Teach people to avoid temptation and not cheat, and that they need to work at a marriage. It's not easy, but if you work it would be well worth the years of happiness that you will experience.
And no this isn't through personal experience. I have been split from my husband for well over a year now, he could not resist temptation. It's his problem not mine, so yes I may at some point get married again, but only if I feel it's to be.
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Submitted by freestyle on Fri, 09/05/2008 - 5:38am....just marry, take place in your frame, don't move and be happy - and if not please, don't show it, we don't want to have a ruined picture!
In our society everybody have his problems, but we are not allowed to show it, this would be a sign of failure! Sometimes it would be much easier to talk openly with someone and try to find solutions than to wait too long time and try to ignore the problems.
Darkwriter, I wish you a lot of happy experiences in your future life and send good thoughts to you!
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Submitted by darkwriter on Sun, 11/16/2008 - 2:12pm.Thanks for the well wishes. I appreciate it, and isn't it sad that we are not allowed to show problems.
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Submitted by freestyle on Fri, 08/29/2008 - 2:43am.Yes Victoriaelise, I see what you mean! It is more the image we are longing for without knowing too much about it.
In our society there is no place for imperfection, just marry with a wonderful party and be content you've did so! In a kind of human hybris and overestimation of one's own capabilities we are made believe that for every problem you will find a solution! And the solution should be in the social accepted norms, even if this standards stopped working.
Or maybe they never did, as you said nowadays everybody is more independent and there are lot of possibilities to create partnership in a new way.
When I was about eight years old my Grandmother told me that she wasn't sad at all when her husband didn't return from world war the second. She had other plans than to give birth every year to another child (at that time she had four) and she created her life in her own independent way. When she was about 70 she had a lover for two years, but just for the weekend, she didn't want to wash and cook all the time for him, she only wanted to spent some wonderful hours together with him.
While whole the family was ashamed of her behavior, I really never could understand why they couldn't accept her decision, ok. you are not allowed to do that, it is not "normal"!
But she was so happy!!!
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After years of marriage common plans might change into different directions.
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Submitted by Cupgrease on Thu, 08/28/2008 - 8:42am.Marriage should be a legally binding contract that manages assets and that anticipates the moving on of two individuals to other, binding although exclusive relationships. And that would allow for the equitable accruing of said assets from one individual to another.
Romantic love aside, marriages end, and it is the not planning for such that makes it bitter. If an individual could 'accrue' their lifelong assets, split newly accrued assets with their current mates, and then divide them equitably upon the dissolution of the marriage, this would be a much manageable and worthwhile union.
We should plan for serial monogamy, not hope against it.
Cg
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Submitted by freestyle on Fri, 08/29/2008 - 1:34am.Hi Cupgrease ( a wonderful name, would suggest some dish detergent! ),
yes, you are right, we should start to think about that, I will let you know when I did so!
And you think monogamy would be the solution we are looking for and would stop divorces?
Interesting and so easy!
No, but seriously, most divorces take place after several years of marriage, the couple forgot their plans from years ago!
B.Hellinger suggested in one of his books to imagine, will say call back the first impression of the partner which made you fall in love with her/ him.
Carrying this image dearly with you and calling it when you ask yourself why ever did you marry that person, might be helpful.
There is no easy, fast solution, the divorce phenomenon is too complex as it is marriage, but there are several ideas, kind of exercises which could be very helpful to avoid divorce!
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-Monogamy is not a solution to avoid divorce.
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Submitted by Cupgrease on Thu, 08/28/2008 - 8:42am.Marriage should be a legally binding contract that manages assets and that anticipates the moving on of two individuals to other, binding although exclusive relationships. And that would allow for the equitable accruing of said assets from one individual to another.
Romantic love aside, marriages end, and it is the not planning for such that makes it bitter. If an individual could 'accrue' their lifelong assets, split newly accrued assets with their current mates, and then divide them equitably upon the dissolution of the marriage, this would be a much manageable and worthwhile union.
We should plan for serial monogamy, not hope against it.
Cg
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Submitted by freestyle on Fri, 08/29/2008 - 1:34am.Hi Cupgrease ( a wonderful name, would suggest some dish detergent! ),
yes, you are right, we should start to think about that, I will let you know when I did so!
And you think monogamy would be the solution we are looking for and would stop divorces?
Interesting and so easy!
No, but seriously, most divorces take place after several years of marriage, the couple forgot their plans from years ago!
B.Hellinger suggested in one of his books to imagine, will say call back the first impression of the partner which made you fall in love with her/ him.
Carrying this image dearly with you and calling it when you ask yourself why ever did you marry that person, might be helpful.
There is no easy, fast solution, the divorce phenomenon is too complex as it is marriage, but there are several ideas, kind of exercises which could be very helpful to avoid divorce!
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Point of view
To go through a divorce is not easy at all.
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Submitted by Cupgrease on Thu, 08/28/2008 - 8:42am.Marriage should be a legally binding contract that manages assets and that anticipates the moving on of two individuals to other, binding although exclusive relationships. And that would allow for the equitable accruing of said assets from one individual to another.
Romantic love aside, marriages end, and it is the not planning for such that makes it bitter. If an individual could 'accrue' their lifelong assets, split newly accrued assets with their current mates, and then divide them equitably upon the dissolution of the marriage, this would be a much manageable and worthwhile union.
We should plan for serial monogamy, not hope against it.
Cg
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Submitted by freestyle on Fri, 08/29/2008 - 1:34am.Hi Cupgrease ( a wonderful name, would suggest some dish detergent! ),
yes, you are right, we should start to think about that, I will let you know when I did so!
And you think monogamy would be the solution we are looking for and would stop divorces?
Interesting and so easy!
No, but seriously, most divorces take place after several years of marriage, the couple forgot their plans from years ago!
B.Hellinger suggested in one of his books to imagine, will say call back the first impression of the partner which made you fall in love with her/ him.
Carrying this image dearly with you and calling it when you ask yourself why ever did you marry that person, might be helpful.
There is no easy, fast solution, the divorce phenomenon is too complex as it is marriage, but there are several ideas, kind of exercises which could be very helpful to avoid divorce!
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The lack of sexual attraction is a reason to get divorced.
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Submitted by Elysenicole88 on Mon, 08/25/2008 - 5:37pm.I think marriage is still a wonderful institution that promotes a deep commitment to the ones we love. The problem is that too many people expect so much of their marriages but are unwilling to put in the work. No one wants to keep "the candle aflame." Marriage is for people who truly love each other unconditionally and those who are mature enough to handle its responsibilities.
Many people are taking marriage lightly and ending up in divorce, but that doesn't mean the institution should be obsolete. It just means most people are allowing their marriages to fail. It's always easier to get a divorce then to just work the problem out.
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Submitted by freestyle on Tue, 08/26/2008 - 6:45am.In the first place I don't think people end up in divorce because they took marriage lightly!
Nobody in real life would marry without unconditional love, without believing it is for a whole life, without wishing to bring luck to each other and a future family! Therefore people are marrying!
But in every second case it doesn't work. So the question is why it doesn't work!
The answer you propose us is, "people are allowing their marriage to fail".
This would mean that people are able to create their own lives just as they want, it only depends of the will and effort they use, right? If I would be religious I would say only God has this power but fortunately no human being!
"It's easier to get a divorce..."have you ever followed a divorce? It is not at all like in a film!
People who went through a divorce very often end up in loneliness, financial problems, mental and emotional they are depending from their psychologist, not to talk about the children! In most cases a divorce needs a lot of energy, money and courage!
Just to stay in a hopeless situation is much easier than to bear all the follows of the decision to get divorced.
Don't get me wrong, sure I agree with you that problems should be worked out, but even with help from outside this is not always possible.
Examples:
-Lack of respect
-Use of violence
-Regular fights in front of the children
-Lack of sexual attraction
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Submitted by Elysenicole88 on Thu, 08/28/2008 - 6:56pm.Don't be naive. Many people get married without knowing what they are getting themselves into. And many of them get married when they don't love the person unconditionally. And yes., I DO know the painful process of a divorce.
The examples you listed are not reasons to get a divorce except the violence reason.
Most marriages encounter all those issues. It's inevitable. But perfect love wins out every time. If you Really love someone unconditionally, you look beyond sexual attraction, and disagreements. That's why it's called "unconditional."
Remember the basic marriage vows, "through thick and thin."
Elyse A
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Submitted by freestyle on Thu, 08/28/2008 - 10:45pm.if going through thick and thin means for example that women should support their husbands behavior which is showing not the slightest respect to them, very often seen in front of others, more or less subtle (this is a kind of hormone-stimulating action) and to thank him afterward she is wanted to have sex with him, this is even more a reason for me to support divorce!
Just to make my examples a little more concrete.
"Many people get married without knowing what they are getting themselves into",
is not correct, because really NOBODY knows that! This has nothing to do with being naive! You don't even know when you take your new, perfect car to do some shoppings and even being the perfect driver, you never will know if not just this time you will have an accident!
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Submitted by Elysenicole88 on Fri, 08/29/2008 - 6:24pm.Right! But that doesn't mean I'm going to stop driving.
Elyse A
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Submitted by freestyle on Sat, 08/30/2008 - 2:13pm.it is your personal decision to continue driving, this makes you in no way a bad or good person. Your neighbor decided that for him it is better to take the train because he is an anxious person. You made sure that you have the insurance you want to have ( and the money to pay fuel!) while your neighbor never would feel good in a car even with the best insurances.
Shouldn't we just take out the moralizing aspect, so everybody may feel free to do the choice fitting to his personal possibilities, character and situation?
I propose to update Kierkegaard's quotation:
Marry or marry not, you shouldn't regret it!
May we come together like that?
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Submitted by mjontheweb on Tue, 08/26/2008 - 11:04pm.MJo
It 's true that divorce is not easy, especially for women who are financially dependent on their husbands....it is very difficult to commit to life, but even more difficult to break free. Who can really say "I love you for life" A life is dealy problems and defects of the other emerging..
"learn to better know each other for less love" " apprendre à mieux connaitre pour moins aimer"
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Submitted by freestyle on Thu, 08/28/2008 - 11:19pm.Chere MJo,
sorry I'm showing your private message here in public, but this is what I mean, just like Kierkegaard!
And you suggested:" learn to know each other better for more love"
I would suggest: keep your little secrets for more love and give space to your beloved little secrets for more love.
Sometimes to know EVERYTHING from each other is just boring and listen for hundred times the same story with the same surprise would merit a gold medal.
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Submitted by mjontheweb on Fri, 08/29/2008 - 1:39am.MJo
I agree with you, but I did not think ( their secrets or their story). I just wanted to say that there are people that you learn to love more when you discover their personality....and others for whom we have " le coup de foudre" or (we fall crazy in love) and which reveals their bad character their bad tendencies uninteresting after a few years.
Never rush before falling in mariage
La citation pourrait être " Learn to know each other and see..." (lol)
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Submitted by freestyle on Wed, 08/27/2008 - 5:53am."Denen, die viel geliebt haben, wird alles vergeben!"
Olivier Messiaens Oper "Saint Francois d'Assise"
"Those who loved a lot, everything will be forgiven"
(after Francis of Assisi, I just finished the Nikos Kazantzakis biography about him!)
I found some interesting books from Bert Hellinger ( he studied Philosophy, Theology )
about couple life, did you hear about him?
I agree with your quotation, i guess it will say that in everyday life
we need to respect each other, soooo true!
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Use of violence is a reason to get a divorce.
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Submitted by Cupgrease on Thu, 08/28/2
I don't think we need to find a new way to form partnerships. I think that people need to stop marrying for the wrong reasons. Just because you've been together for years and you're comfortable with each other doesn't mean you should get married. Just because you're hot for each other and don't think you'll ever be able to live without each other doesn't mean you should get married. I think that there are valid reasons for getting divorced, but I also think that people use divorce as a way to avoid having to work hard at making a relationship work. And I can honestly speak from experience because I have been married for more than 15 years and while we've had both ups and downs we're still happily married. Maybe if it was more difficult to get divorced, more people would really consider the depth of their feelings and commitment prior to jumping into marriage.
I totally agree. That was my point exactly.
Elyse A
Hi Ggunselman,
I guess you are a rare phenomenon for nowadays and your comments make me glad. Often I got the impression while watching couples, it works as long as they are with others, but when they are "alone" (sitting in a cafe or out for dinner) it appears to me there is nothing behind, it seems often just to be empty in a way, but maybe I'm wrong!
May I ask what was your motivation to get married?
He makes me laugh. I always said I would marry someone that could make me laugh even when we were going through rough times. We don't always get along. We don't always agree. But we remember what we love about each other always and let that guide us rather than our circumstances.
this is really touching and it makes my happy couples like you still exist.
I wish you a lot of more good laughs together with him!!!